tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post2067597010336970546..comments2023-04-03T04:00:20.248-07:00Comments on figuring it out...: Religion (and coincidental quotes)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-19769148834381208762008-11-10T19:07:00.000-08:002008-11-10T19:07:00.000-08:00:) no, REDguy, you don't come off as an oblivious...:) no, REDguy, you don't come off as an oblivious saint. I appreciate your comments, and your generous way of expressing your experiences and beliefs. <BR/><BR/>and I agree, the message of "Don't Fall, Don't Be Deceived, Don't Fail" can be a plea for safety; a desire to protect and heal. <BR/>I think how it is interpreted depends upon the particular messenger and the particular audience. <BRgalen dara https://www.blogger.com/profile/02987352194018060353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-77329887237486306372008-11-10T17:17:00.000-08:002008-11-10T17:17:00.000-08:00Maybe I'm imposing my experience with more local l...Maybe I'm imposing my experience with more local leaders on those more "general" but I still believe the repeated message of "Don't Fall, Don't Be Deceived, Don't Fail" is one of pleading, an anxious desire to call us towards home, as perhaps Lehi did with Laman and Lemuel. Though I do not know what it is to be righteous, I understand what it means to not want my own dark, spiritual circumstancesTaylor Hellewellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02629257304162238000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-26923632936714928252008-11-07T21:43:00.000-08:002008-11-07T21:43:00.000-08:00hey REDguy, thanks for stopping by with your persp...hey REDguy, thanks for stopping by with your perspective.<BR/>Under normal circumstances, I would generally agree that much good can also come from the programs of the church and their elevating enlightening compassionate words etc...<BR/>but at the moment I am feeling rather jaded about the rhetorical spin that the leadership and (most?) membership are utilizing to justify banning same sex galen dara https://www.blogger.com/profile/02987352194018060353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-5946924921457814062008-11-07T21:09:00.000-08:002008-11-07T21:09:00.000-08:00I have to say that I understand the tension that a...I have to say that I understand the tension that arises when one feels the weight of a celestial burden on very telestial shoulders (mine are quite carnal, sensual, devilish, etc.) but I think with all of the pressure I hear more encouragement, more praise, more elevating ideas, motivating thoughts, and compassionate, understanding words from those whose voices we might be tempted to group with Taylor Hellewellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02629257304162238000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-6034614851128324992008-11-06T14:59:00.000-08:002008-11-06T14:59:00.000-08:00oneawesomegirl, no one is holding a literal gun to...oneawesomegirl, no one is holding a literal gun to anyone's head. And thankfully, the archaic language threatening death and disembowelment to the unfaithful have been removed from the temple ceremony. <BR/><BR/>The coersion is internalized guilt threats of divine punishment and heavenly banishment. As you said: you can live the gosple or not. And the LDS concept of living the gosple or not galen dara https://www.blogger.com/profile/02987352194018060353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-39962469357527883132008-11-06T13:17:00.000-08:002008-11-06T13:17:00.000-08:00WOW! Reading this page makes me sooo sad! I real...WOW! Reading this page makes me sooo sad! <BR/><BR/>I realize that people need to figure things out for themselves but certain things on here are being misrepresented!! <BR/><BR/>No one in the LDS church coerces you or makes you do anything. You have the freedom to choose what you will do or what you will not do. If you will live the gospel or not...its all up to you.<BR/><BR/>And John...what oneawesomegirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08252298625009659397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-61797228071053853252008-10-08T10:05:00.000-07:002008-10-08T10:05:00.000-07:00ick, ya djinn, that being the fip side of the fait...ick, ya djinn, that being the fip side of the faith coin- devoted enough to manipulated into commiting atrocities.<BR/><BR/>good point.galen dara https://www.blogger.com/profile/02987352194018060353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-10849229041885704312008-10-08T00:17:00.000-07:002008-10-08T00:17:00.000-07:00Joseph Smith was on to something. To paraphrase, ...Joseph Smith was on to something. To paraphrase, Voltaire said (translations differ ) "As long as people continue to believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities." Certainly true for my family. It seems to me Joseph Smith was speaking of a different dynamic--once you get someone to believe, truly believe in something (and notice how generic the original quote is) they can be djinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06112894520660114580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-87538658228956678722008-09-12T01:26:00.000-07:002008-09-12T01:26:00.000-07:00just for kicks, here is more of the quote from Wic...just for kicks, here is more of the quote from Wicked: <BR/><BR/>"The idea of religion worked for Nessarose, it worked for Frex. There may be no real city in the clouds, but dreaming of it can enliven the spirit." (pg 387)galen dara https://www.blogger.com/profile/02987352194018060353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-30357713427508513972008-09-11T20:50:00.000-07:002008-09-11T20:50:00.000-07:00thank you alisa, for your perspective. "being" a...thank you alisa, for your perspective. "being" and learning how to be... I think that is a big part of what I am working through at the moment. I appreciate your thoughts. <BR/><BR/>this all is brining to mind Jessawhy's post about <A HREF="http://the-exponent.com/2008/08/26/producing-joy-and-making-magick-with-god/" REL="nofollow">Producing Joy and Making Magic</A>. especially where she galen dara https://www.blogger.com/profile/02987352194018060353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-10318410467614294222008-09-11T18:58:00.000-07:002008-09-11T18:58:00.000-07:00I think anyone in any religion can lose focus on *...I think anyone in any religion can lose focus on *being* and obsess about all the *doing*. I guess I figure bringing about salvation, from a Christian point of view, is Christ's job, not mine. Learning how to be often takes much more discipline than following all the things we are told to do.Alisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12881867656072259894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-88643367417267428942008-09-11T18:44:00.000-07:002008-09-11T18:44:00.000-07:00In response to your mom's point, I'd actually say ...In response to your mom's point, I'd actually say that it's harder to sacrifice in Quakerism, UU, most of liberal Christianity and outside of religion altogether, because it really does have to be freely given. You're welcome to give 10% and all your time, and many do. But no one's keeping track, no one's applying guilt trips or social pressure. From this perspective, Mormonism looks a lot JohnRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822899155130408891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-48941958195017891792008-09-11T18:35:00.000-07:002008-09-11T18:35:00.000-07:00yes, JohnR... I think that is what is getting all...yes, JohnR... I think that is what is getting all turned around (re-examined/ questioned?) for me... sacrafice outside of religious coercion...<BR/><BR/>individual ability to benefit from the (as you say) sanctification process of sacrifice if it is not associated with the demands of a religion (the need to do x y and z to attain a b and c. salvation and social progression within the galen dara https://www.blogger.com/profile/02987352194018060353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4319139334819650146.post-85024324888313258432008-09-11T17:41:00.000-07:002008-09-11T17:41:00.000-07:00The thing that bugs me the most isn't the sacrific...The thing that bugs me the most isn't the sacrifice demanded by religion so much as the coercion associated with it. Mormons in particular are held deeply accountable for solemn vows that they take at the tender ages of eight and their late teens and early twenties. The one that bugs me the most is my promise to give all of "my time, talents, and everything with which the lord has blessed me"-JohnRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822899155130408891noreply@blogger.com